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Big difference. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Inded, welcome! How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. In this respect, if we continue to compare Luke with Matthew, the ones "taken" (Matt 24:40-41, NASB) are similar to those "taken" at the flood of Noah (Matt 24:39, NASB). Jesus' Coming Will Be Divisive In Its Effect (Luke 17:34-36) Jesus' Coming Will Be Permanent In Its Fatality (Luke 17:37. Now when the Lord gave the Disciples this sign in Luke chapter 17 they understood that Jesus was talking about the last days and that some people would suddenly disappear but they didnt know anything about the Rapture and the logical question was asked, Where Lord? i.e. Who is the one taken? Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy For more information about this event, we must read Matthew 25:31-46. Luke 17:33-37 says, "Remember Lot's wife. THE RAPTURE, A SECRET UNTIL JESUS CHRIST REVEALED IT TO PAUL Attempting to argue against those who say Jesus never preached about the Rapture, people will take Jesus' words in Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 about individuals being taken away, and make them apply to people being taken to heaven in the Rapture. And they One commentator states that Nowhere does the Olivet Discourse deal with the Rapture. The words in the Olivet Discourse come after the Lord has given a chronological description of events following this Church age and lasting for the 7 years of the Tribulation, culminating in the glorious return of Christ to the earth to establish His kingdom and to reign on the throne of David. expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter That was Jesus context when He said it would be like this at the coming of the Son of Man. And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. shalt be condemned. " (27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and. One will be taken and the other left. supper of the great God; (18) That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. As Lot was taken out of Sodom before its destruction, we who will believe in Him also are to be taken from among the unbelievers. What was the role of Timothy in the infant church? (32) Remember Lot's wife. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for professors, theologians, and those interested in exegetical analysis of biblical texts. Thus eagles in Luke 17:37 could refer angels. Therefore, we do not know if Jesus was referring to two men, two women or just two people, such as a married couple. Some understand it to mean that the Son of Man will inevitably appear just as eagles inevitably show up where there is carrion. world. Luke 16. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever ", [Jer 16:18 NKJV] 18 "And first I will repay double for their iniquity and their sin, because they have defiled My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable and abominable idols.". In the gospel of Matthew, we find that Jesus was also discussing His second coming just before Matthew 24:40. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. (12) I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot Again in the Lords high priestly prayer Jesus prayed: Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one (one Body in Christ); as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me (John 17:20-21). Donations to this ministry aretax-deductible. mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not The following accounts in Matthew and Luke are the primary scriptures used to teach the idea of a secret rapture. at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that Here is a blog post that explains it in more detail: https://overcomingthetribulation.com/carcasses-eagles-and-taken/. Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? Each Book adds a little more detail to the questions His Disciples asked of Jesus about His coming Kingdom "when . daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of We are not to return evil for their evil that will come out of their mouths as we leave their company. The Holy Spirit chose the words of Scripture and any interpretation must faithfully interpret those words in their literal meaning. Come quickly, Lord Jesus! The ones taken were saved and the ones left were the ones destroyed by the flood. 144x times in KJV sma is body not corps. Another example given by Jesus ( a few verses earlier) was that of Lot, who was "taken along" by the angel and the others were abandoned. I believe that the context in Luke is about not being like Lots wife an having one foot in the kingdom and one foot still back in Sodom , you will be left for destruction. But Israel will know that the Tribulation; the 70th week of Daniel chapter 9, has come when all over the world people disappear. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the We who believe must ARISE and go from here and snatch others from the coming fire as well. In this passage, Jesus is referring to those who would be taken, and those who would be "Left Behind". Here is my translation of Luke 17:22-37. When you get a chance, please take the. on me; (10) Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see And this is in perfect harmony with what the rest of the Bible says on the subject. giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, 39 and they the mouth speaketh. Moreover, his kingdom will be without end. Two shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. One obvious key word in our passage is "day"and "days," hmera. This is because the dead have already risen by Luke 17:37. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. eg. John 16:7-13 KJV (7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is Whereas the eagles in Matthew 24:28 gather around carcases, the eagles in Luke 17:37 gather around living bodies. Then thereafter, everything said, points to 'features of *rapture, simple. What phrases give people the false idea that there will be a secret rapture? After evoking the Great Tribulation in verse 1, the second verse of the song is a poetic restatement of Luke 17:34 and Matthew 24:40: A man and wife asleep in bed,/ She hears a noise and turns her head he's gone;/ I wish we'd all been ready. lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. You welcome my friend. Then and only then will his will be done perfectly on earth as it is in heaven. It doesn't matter if it is a raven or an eagle! : [Pro 30:17 KJV] 17 The eye [that] mocketh at [his] father, and despiseth to obey [his] mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. If you se vultures you know where the corpses are. , Jesus prophesies the events immediately preceding His return to this earth and the resurrection of Gods faithful people: "For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His dayTwo women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. be the coming of the Son of Man. And he said unto Luke 17:34 (NIV). "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdom of the Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever" (Revelation 11:15b). The eagles will be gathered together as they will speak a multitude of words as they will persecute those that leave them. The passage in Luke 17 appears to be parallel to Matthew 24. So it is not a valid argument to reason that because Jesus was speaking to Jewish disciples before Pentecost He could not be referring to the Rapture of the Church. All Sermons Bible Studies Devotionals Prayers. (33) Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and The verb grinding is feminine. The people "taken" - These are Christians who are tracked down after Christianity is outlawed and arrested. The body is the dead body of unbelievers we are to leave behind in order to follow Jesus. (36) But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, We are to leave it all behind (all of their church thoughts and ways) and take nothing of them with us so that we follow the Lord in His footsteps and suffer without the camp by the keeping of His sacrifice as they will persecute us for leaving them. If the rapture had occurred, then the dead have already risen because Paul . Luke 17:30-33(NASB). This is exactly whats found in Revelation 19:17-18, 21; and Ezekiel 39:4, 17-20. (34) I tell you, in Jesus stresses the Necessity for watchfulness-, to keep ready, Jesus explains. They will seek to prevent others in believing the revealed Word of Truth and will persecute those who will receive it in faith. So Luke names 4 qualities of a true disciple: Offences; Forgiveness; Faith; & Service. We would do well to expand the context of the passage under consideration by going to verse 20 in the same chapter, where the Pharisees questioned Jesus about when the kingdom of God was coming. This chart shows the flow of events as: 1) The Antichrist at Point 1. Luke 17:37 says " Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together ". whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. English Standard Version Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered These two signs will occur at the same time and will send an unmistakable message to 144,000 Jewish men who will instantly turn to Jesus Christ. 37 For as the days of 35 There will be two women grinding together. the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the What I put forward is not my view but what the text clearly teaches. good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the @majnemzdn Are you a riddle wrapped in an enigma..;>) ? So, AFTER the Great Tribulation, Jesus will return like lightning to rapture believers and to destroy sinners. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. I believe that Luke 17 has the rapture in mind and the verse in question should read where the body is, there the eagles will gather. The word is body in Luke and corpse in Matt 24. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, "Gather the weeds FIRST and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn. is luke 21:36 talking about the rapture. I will not talk much with you: **for the prince of this world cometh, Alstorph. Likewise, the parable of the wheat and tares teaches that the tares will be gathered and burned before the wheat is brought into the barn (the Kingdom). On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. It has come to my attention, and as I understand it, that those who insist that the rapture verses of Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 are, in their opinion, a judgment of the unsaved, are saying that the Greek word "paralambn" - as found in another passage of Scripture - can carry the connotation of judgment. Is Matthew 24:30-31 about the rapture or second coming. Now, do Luke 17:34-37 and Matthew 24:40-41 refer to the rapture? This means that both Luke 17:30-35 and Matthew 24:37-41 are events that will occur after the second coming of Christ. Paralambano means to receive to ones self. A good man will bring good things out of his heart while an evil heart shall speak a multitude of evil words. By itself, this might not mean that the two people were men, for Greek (as in most languages) can use male words and pronouns to refer generically to "people" whether they are male or female. They will not be able to receive His words and will gnash their teeth in rage towards what they hear. Again, we learn that the people taken out of the city were the saved. Lu 17:37 G4983 body, flesh; the body of the Church. with the brightness of his coming: The wicked will be tormented in the presence of the Lamb as we keep His sacrifice when the persecute us. Perhaps it means that the ones taken will be disenfranchised, their goods confiscated and their rights terminated as a "felony". Does God expect me to live with a physically abusive spouse. John 14:29-31 KJV (29) And now I have told you before it come to It is so important for us today to make known the truth of the Rapture to the Jewish people. When Luke 17:34 says, "one will be taken and the other left," the words "one" and "other" are both masculine. As for the "where question," Jesus' apparently cryptic answer is really quite straightforward. Celestial Signs of the Coming Savior (Luke 21:25-26) Grace to You, Mar 22, 2017. There are many Antichrists but one body of Christ. (Matthew 24:40-42). We have 3 groups of people here. (36) Two men We are to keep His sacrifice in the presence of their persecutions by not returning evil for their evil. *. Saints: being, the Vultures will gather! The words taken and left have a literal meaning. But he seemed as one that Regarding Jesus' arrest, why might the gospels differ so much? so this is clearly not a case of people being taken up to heaven or anything like that. It didnt make sense to me so I compared Luke 17 and Matthew 24, looking for similarities and hoping that would shed light on what Jesus meant. Jesus indicated that the people taken will be killed when the disciples asked "taken where?" (37) For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou Those who were taken were those who remained in the city and were taken by the Roman army. Literalising the scripture with a carnal mentality, wud just lead one astray to his own peril. When the righteous (think about righteous Lot here) are taken out of the churches of the unbelievers, then the Wicked are revealed as they will speak evil words against the believers who leave. Their carcasses [were] as refuse in the midst of the streets. And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. G105 Eagle (or vulture) Could also read; Wheresoever the body shall be, thither will the eagles. and hath nothing in me.*. Luke 17:35 (NASB) Matthew 24:40-41 communicates the same facts. We know it is the Rapture of the Church because we have Pauls epistles that explain it. These are events that will take place after the Second Coming of Christ. Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Jesus refers to the flood sweeping the people away when they are caught off guard. I was pleased to see the CEB use the word "disciple" to refer to the mysterious young man who appears in Mark 14:51-52, after the 12 disciples desert Jesus and run away. Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. Check out ourBible Answerspage for more information on a variety of topics. At that height the eagles have perfect vision and can see a mouse on the ground and we too will have perfect vision, we will understand how all the way the Lord has led us. (15) And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, They will also be tormented in the presence of the holy angels.the messengers.the words of our Lord which are life and spirit. Arise, let us go hence.*. There is no doubt the disciples were referring to the ones taken. Jesus said other things to the disciples about the Church which they could not understand but which later became quite evident to them. When Jesus discusses the cost of discipleship in Luke who are the kings at war and what do they symbolize? Matthew 24:40-41; Luke 17:26-30, 34-36 He calls himself , because he saves us by his death, and feeds us by his body, in his Church, Word, and sacraments . We must "ARISE" and go away from the company of the "dead"the unbelievers who will hear the revealed Word of Truth and will not believe in it when they do. Soma comes from the Greek word sozo meaning I save. He replied, Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.. heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil Mark 3:4, Luke 6:9 & Matthew 10:28. It is true that the parable of the Net catching good and bad fish teaches that the bad fish will be first cast away and the good fish will remain for the kingdom at the coming of the Lord. shall lose his life shall preserve it. Most Popular. Luke-21:25-34-kjv. Those whom Jesus said would be left would be those who heeded the warning and fled to the mountains. I know this has been years since the question was asked, but in case dont have clarity or others see this, I wanted to answer. How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates. What does the verse mean? Russia will invade with her Islamic associates; two thirds of the Jews in the land will perish; but Israel will cry out to Jesus Christ and the invaders will be destroyed. How to prove that the supernatural or paranormal doesn't exist? Jesus: being symbolised at the dead copse, point of interest, (,,not meaning/saying, He's a dead Copse) destroyed all of them 30 it will be like that on the day that the Son Remember Lots wife!". 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. , 37 "And they answered and said to Him, Where, Lord? So He said to It is a compound word composed of a preposition para meaning near and a verb, lambano meaning I receive. Posted on Aug 19, 2017 I believe you are referring to Luke 17:34-36. them, Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.. The word for taken in Luke 17:34 is the Greek word paralamban, which means to receive from and is the same Greek word that is used in John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. This seems to refer to Christ taking the church in the event of the rapture rather than some other sort of taken. The armies that follow them will likewise be slain. judge him in the last day. Revelation 14:10 KJV (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the For those who believe that Luke 17:34-36 is not speaking of the rapture but of the judgment after Christ's Second Coming and that those taken are the wicked, I must point out a few things and conclude with a determining factor. Why did the disciples have so much trouble recognizing Jesus after his resurrection? Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor. The ones left are simply non Christians hence people who are of no concern to the Anti-Christ. saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; If they are not still on the earth then who is doing the burying? pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. Please see, Welcome and thank you for your contribution. As the men of Sodom, they will weary themselves to find the door in their spiritual blindness brought upon them for their unbelief in the hearing and resistance of Word of Truth. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away, so too will John 14:3). Many people use these words to support a concept called the rapture. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Who will be devoured? Luke says, the Flood came and destroyed them all, and Matthew says, the Flood came and took them all away. To be taken was to be destroyed, or die. My code is GPL licensed, can I issue a license to have my code be distributed in a specific MIT licensed project? The Lord shall consume them with the Spirit of His mouth as they will gnash their teeth in rage against what they hear Him saying and will speak all kinds of evil in resistance which will destroy themselves. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (11) And they smote the men that were Is the Goat and Sheep judgment also the White Throne judgment? (7) For the mystery of iniquity Matthew 24 is answering a question by Jewish Disciples who asked about the end of the age and the second coming of Christ and some have assumed that the Rapture is not relevant in that context. There will be two women grinding together. Like in the wheat and the weeds parable. Matthew 24:40-41 communicates the same facts. Any duration. That is, birds of prey visible in the heavens congregate and devour corpses on earth. In Luke I believe that we are seeing the body of Christ (the church) being raptured the be with the Lord in the air where eagles gather. Some will hear and believe and come out from among the unbelievers (the dead body) who will not believe in the revealed Word of Truth when they hear it. In Lot's case, his wife looked back as she did not want to give up on her life of comfort she had back in Sodom, she was consequently "taken" The fire that destroyed Sodom is another parallel on how God will destroy the world in the end with fire. I always used to believe that phrase was about a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, but in Jesus context, it means the wicked are taken (die) and the rest are left alive. Matthew 13:30 . I realized the disciples were asking where the taken where taken (in Luke 17:37), so then Jesus answer made sense literally: vultures will eat the carcasses of people (the wicked) who die. 0 Was Jesus talking about the rapture or judgment in Luke 17:34-37? The CEB and the disciple who barely escaped Whenever a new Bible translation comes out, questions arise about changes to familiar passages. 22 He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will yearn to see one of the days of the Son of Man, . Points 10 and 11 (Luke 17:34-35) say that "one will be taken and the other left" and this is the Rapture. things to come. Revelation 19:17-21. The time of Jacobs trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) will have arrived. That article doesn't deal with Lk 17:34-37. doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken being evil, speak good things? Here is Matthew 24:37-39. In this case, people who are taken maybe the living ones. Those taken or those left behind? When one is taken and the other left Israel will know the end of the age has come. The Paralambn of Matthew 24:40-41 & Luke 17:34-36. by Mark A. Becker. They will want you to return evil for their evil when they speak against you for receiving it. All the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven are the multitude of words that will fly out of the mouths of all the unbelievers in this coming time.and it is by our words that we are justified and it is by our own words that we are condemned. People who have gladly taken the mark of the beast and people who are of no concern to the anti Christ. For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. One will be taken and the other left. A non-profit, 501(c)3 corporation. What is interesting is that Jesus also mentions the accounts of Lot and Noah. "'" First, if we read the three verses leading up to this text, we find this: As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. For more on the secret rapture: Can you give me the Bible support for the Secret Rapture? The words quoted in Luke 17 come after the Lord had answered the Pharisees question about the timing of the Kingdom of God. heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father. In Luke 17:28-33 what does Jesus mean by "save his life" and "lose his life"? Luke 17:34-35, The disciples are interested to know about those taken away and its location, And they said to him, "Where, Lord?" will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Luke 17:34-37 (NIV84) 34 "I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.