Such an amazing thing was supposed to be their sign. Khawiya seems to mean destroyed/overturned but the term could possibly mean ruined too. Its like me living in a house, then someone tears it down and then builds another house and says Abdullah used to live in that house while the fact is that I did not. Not only did they reject them, they mocked, ridiculed, and in the case of Salih (AS) they even tried to kill him. Also there were no prophets between Isa AS and Muhammad SAW which is another issue to clarify. Why? Saudi Arabia, in terms of archaeology, is really untouched. Rather, it tells us to look at the region in which Thamud had existed as well as the many generations after them. Large numbers of Bani Rasheed are also found on the Arabian Peninsula. The Bible As for the conclusion that Ashab al-Hijr were not Thamud, I think this is rather unwarranted. So what we see are Hellenistic structures built by Midianites taken over from the Thamud. [pp. The Thamud (Arabic: , romanized:amd) were an ancient Arabian tribe or tribal confederation[1] that occupied the northwestern Arabian peninsula between the late-eighth century BCE, when they are attested in Assyrian sources, and the fifth century CE, when they served as Roman auxiliaries. [30], In the 12th century, the Arab Ja'alin tribe migrated into Nubia and Sudan and formerly occupied the country on both banks of the Nile from Khartoum to Abu Hamad. The caliphate also allowed the migration of Arab tribes to Egypt. 74], , And certainly did the companions of Thamud deny the messengers. 2. Aad are mentioned as another Arabian tribe destroyed by God for rejecting their Prophet Hud. Even though they built great sculptures, they werent extremely sophistated people. It is not specific to the 2 Arab tribes. In other words either the evidence no longer exists (no problem) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are. The Rashaida of Sudan and Eritrea live in close proximity with the Beja people. Thats it. But it was hamstrung and eventually killed by nine people of Thamud, who then attempted but failed to kill Salih himself. Thus, there was a latter 'Ad as well, whom some exegetes considered the people of Thamud. This is an article I recently wrote. Marcus Aurelius Anthoninus and Lucius Aurelius Verus, who are the conquerors of the Armenians. Wadi al-Qura, refer to the article above. The above article contained links to images which do not show up in here after I copied and pasted them from my ms word. The Edomites can also be a separate nation and through the passage time they shared history, tradition, and custom with the remnants of the Thamud. 6. Ignore the entire thing and continue to spread their deception and lies. Good reply Adeel. There has come to you clear evidence from your Lord. A similar narrative can be found in Jeremiah 49:16 [Prophet], it is your Lord who is the Strong, the Mighty One. But as well see below, archaeological and literary records place them firmly in Northern Arabia/Jordan, well after the death of Jesus (33 AD). (2/434), As for the related Hadith reports related to the incident during the Tabuk expedition they either do not mention Thamud by name or say. Look, it doesnt matter if you warn us or dont warn us, were not going to listen to you. Continue the discussion, Ok thanks so what does atharan mean in classical arabic or can it mean effects and results in classical arabic as well can it mean made as well as left jazzakkallah, And you said that there remains will show they once were better then you do you mean like if throw there might only be a few bricks left those bricks will still show they once were better because of the size of those bricks and how they were carved and the same with broken pillars even this they are broken the size of the circle shaped and the way they are cut they show that they were once supier and still are by the relics than you is that what you mean jazzakkallah by there relics show they once were better even there not that great now like old roman and egyptian bricks not standing but lieing down decaying but we can still tell they built better stuff like all I have to do is find one large bone of a dinosaur to know they are big that I dont need to find a lot of bones to know that is that what you mean jazzakkallah, I mean witch of these sound more like what the verses are saying 1. So Allah sent a camel with the simple command: Dont harm her. Khurusani Arabs were mainly contingent from Nejdi tribes such as Banu Tamim. 1. It makes it specific but is not related to time. The calamity must have been fairly extensive in area and intense in the terror it inspired for it is described as a single mighty blast, the sort of terror inspiring noise which accompanies all big earthquakes.. But before we get to that, lets analyze their responses. Though no one knows for sure when either of these groups existed, it is clear from the Quran that the Aad were successors to the people of Noah. Indeed, we see in you foolishness and indeed, we think you are of the liars.Chapter 7, Verse 66, Have you come to us that we should worship Allah and leave what our fathers worshiped? Do you construct on every elevation a sign amusing yourselves? Many centuries elapse before we find Thamud again in the textual record, though their name crops up many times in (undated) inscriptions throughout North Arabia. In Islamic prophetic history, the Prophet Salih (s) was sent to the first tribe of Thamud before the coming of Moses (s), since one of the believers warned Pharaoh about what happened to them. Nabateans replaced them and built on them/around them, 4. The Aad werent about that. [7][8] In a somewhat muddled passage, Pliny the Elder, a Roman historian of the first century CE, appears to locate the Thamd at the unidentified inland town of "Baclanaza". While every effort has been made to follow citation style rules, there may be some discrepancies. Yet how can we prove that there was a Prophet sent to them since Allah SWT does not punish a nation without sending one? As for now, we dont know. their country was called Arabia Petraea, the rocky; and their metropolis Petra, the rock: Jerom says that they that inhabited the southern part of the country and dwelt in caves cut out of the rock, to screen them from the heat of the sun: or, thou that dwellest in the circumferences of the rock F16; round about it, on the top of it, in a tower built there, as Kimchi and Ben Melech. They didnt bluntly reject Salih like the Aad did to Hud. Surviving quotations from Agatharchides's On the Erythrean Sea, from the second century BCE, reports that the Thamud Arabs then inhabited a "stony and large shore" of the Arabian coastline, south of the Gulf of Aqaba. [17] The Muslim governor of Egypt encouraged the migration of tribes from the Arabian Peninsula to Egypt to increase the Muslim population in the region and to strengthen his regime by enlisting warrior tribesmen to his forces, encouraging them to bring their families and entire clans. He who had faith said (to Pharaoh and his company): O my people, I fear for you the likes of the day of the confederates, the likes of the fate of the people of Noah, Ad, and Thamud and those after them. [20] The traditional Muslim view is that the destruction of Thamud occurred before the prophethood of Abraham. Another inscription from the same temple mentions Aad by name, and reads, by Ghawth son of Aslah son of Thokam and he constructed the temple of Allt, of the people of Ad. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features Press Copyright Contact us Creators . We cannot preclude the notion that structures that are completely different from what has been found so far, will be found in the future. _ Story of Aad _tafseer. Secondly, the Ayaat are not only meant for the Sahaba, they are also for us and for all times and so when the Quran asks the readers to look at what happened to those before, it is meant for us as well. According to the Greek historian, Diodorus Siculus, the Nabateans have a law neither to sow corn nor to plant any fruit-bearing plant, nor to use wine, nor to build a house. I will post the links here for now. Even if the prophet saw these exact structures which are visible today and we can, hypothetically, prove beyond a shadow of doubt that no one ever lived in them, and he took them to be the dwellings of the Thamud, that isnt a major problem. Modern historiography "unveiled the lack of inner coherence of this genealogical system and demonstrated that it finds insufficient matching evidence".[14]. from there I will bring you down, The Quran mentions Aad as successor to the people of Noah (Q 7:69), and Thamud, as successor to Aad in turn (Q 7:74). Previous ones may have fallen and replaced by Nabateans but during the time of the Prophet (), there did remain buildings of Thamud and who knows, they might still be there today but undiscovered by archaeologists. The means of God's destruction of Thamud include a thunderbolt, a storm, a shout, and an earthquake. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Quran and Hadith on Thamud and their Dwellings, The Issue of the Qurans Teaching on Islamic Monotheism. But despite all of this advice, the Aad rejected their brother Hud. It is addressed there I would rather think that the Thamud were more like two or three hundred years after the Aad. 11. The terror you inspire Thus, from the aforementioned verses we have gleaned the following: 1. Its in their records, that we find out first mention of Thamud. A Reminder of the Story of 'Aad and Thamud by Ibn Kathir, taken from Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged), Volume 8 Darussalam 2000 As for `Ad, they were arrogant in the land without right and they said: 'Who is mightier than us in strength?' See they not that Allah Who created them was mightier in strength than them. They were elites. I hope they remove whatever articles they have written on this topic, as its beyond question that the Quran did not make an error on this topic, given that the Bible makes similar claims, and given that we know almost nothing about the Nabateans, and that the majority of the structures85 percent in Petra, and a major portion in Median Salehare still hidden under ground. [27], This article is about the ancient Arabian tribe. As regarding to the Ahadith from Ibn Umar (as), they seem to be a interpretation of him itself, the prophet (as) says nothing about them. Thamud were destroyed Most decent Muslims would never do such a thing, but there are many misguided people who do. Therefore, the Adnanites are descendants of Abraham. Objection number 2 is not a major problem once we consider the various factors involved. The Qurn saysand remember how he made you succeedd and lodged you in the land. [4] This entire passage has been sent by Sharif. It is estimated by some historians that Moses (s) lived around the 16th century BCE. Who can bring me down to the ground? in general: W. Caskel, amharat an-Nasab, das genealogische Werk des Him Ibn Muammad al-Kalb, Leiden 1966. harvnb error: no target: CITEREFElling2013 (. [23] The ninth-century Muslim scholar Ibn Sad believed that the Thamud were the Nabateans. In other words either the evidence no longer exists (no problem) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are yet to be discovered. Its almost impossible to know for certain that the many tombs with Nabatean inscriptions are indeed constructed by them, especially when we know that only 15% of the area in Petra has been excavated and examined. And so, when Our command was fulfilled, by Our mercy We saved li and his fellow believers from the disgrace of that day. Assalamualaikum the ruined abandoned wells may possible be referring to those belonging to the People of Ar-Rass (i.e. (29:38) If they turn away, then say, I warn you of a lightning-bolt like the lightning-bolt of Ad and of Thamud. The arguments against the Quran and Hadith are as follows: Al-Hijr Archaeological Site (Madin Slih) UNESCO World Heritage Centre. They write new content and verify and edit content received from contributors. (LogOut/ Their dwellings remained but very partially The crafts became abundant and firmly rooted. The Arabs then could see Thamud dwellings but we today cannot. The Bible does contain verses about a particular nation known as the Edomites, who did carve out structures on mountains and who were destroyed by God. They mainly settled in the Hauran region and spread to modern Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan. The Thamud ( Arabic: , romanized : amd) were an ancient Arabian tribe or tribal confederation [1] that occupied the northwestern Arabian peninsula between the late-eighth century BCE, when they are attested in Assyrian sources, and the fifth century CE, when they served as Roman auxiliaries. The wordings themselves state so and all the tafaseer also state this. where they used to live. The Nabateans who made the carvings in Madain Saleh and Petra, as well as other Arab groups like the Dedanites/Lihyanites, are their successors. Can you explain how 89:9 is in the past tense (used to carve) because the AL (the) before the mountions bit makes it sound like in the preasent like specific if you know what I mean jazzakkallah But the buildings of the Aad are like Lego blocks compared to the Thamud. Witch of these sound more like what the verse is meaning, 5. But given the possibility that these ruins could have once been created, either completely or partially, by the Thamud and taken later by the Edomites in Petra and then the Nabateans, who inscribed graffiti on themtheir inscriptions are exactly thator even carved out recesses inside of them, there isnt an unsurmountable problem. who occupy the heights of the hill. They lived in the kingdom of Edom, which is about 200 or so miles from Madian Saleh, where, supposedly, the Quranic Thamud lived, although the Thamud could have lived in multiple areas, including Petra 3. What we do know is that the Nabateans lived a nomadic life style. In fact, we even know the scripts they used! We have to be open to the idea that a person living thousands of years ago will have a different concept of a place of dwelling than we, in the 21st century, do. In Umayya's account, there is no Salih. But the shriek seized them at early morning. What timeline do you think thamud and AD and noah came because they would of have to be closed together and if noah nation was the first to commit shirk then they will have to of come 10 thousand bc because of the gobekli temple in Turkey because they commit shirk 9500 bc. And As-Saihah (torment - awful cry) overtook the wrong-doers, so they lay (dead), prostrate in their homes, As if they had never lived there. According to Arab tradition, the Adnanites are called Arabised because it is believed that Ishmael Spoke Aramaic and Egyptian then learnt Arabic from a Qahtanite Yemeni woman that he married. There existed a nation called the Edomites. Trying to make sense of this mad, mad world, And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], Worship Allah and avoid Taghut. And among them were those whom Allah guided, and among them were those upon whom error was [deservedly] decreed. (sorry for all the writting just answer the atharan bit and the 7 things I just wrote Down it doesnt matter about that long paragraph in the middle), Or bonus it just means they were better in building houses on past witch you cant see anymore like effects in 30:50, Any thoughts Bro sorry to keep bothering you with this, Aoa Ad and Thamud were two great civilizations destroyed by God due to their excessive wickedness. after Isa (as), the period there were no prophets aynmore- how they could then deny their messenger? However, that does not solve the dilemma of who carved out the hills and mountains in Petra because the Edomites existed prior to the Nabateans, who according to the Christians were the ones who carved out the mountains and hills of Petra and Madian Saleh in 1st or 2nd century B.C. The Middle verse in chapter (25) of the Noble Quran talks about Noah's people, Ad (the people of the prophet Hud) and Thamud (the people of the prophet Salih). I guess it can be said that the Nabataeans can be considered one of the nations succeeding the people of Thamud. I feel there may be some misconception about how to view Quran. But the inscriptions in Lihyanite script and some recently discovered archaeological vestiges are evidence for human settlementas early as the 3rd or 2nd century BCE. The Nabataean kingdom existed from the 3rd or 2nd century BC, could it be that their punishment was a long one after a prophet was sent to them sometime before Prophet Isa AS? p.190. This poses problematic. Allah knows best if that really happened (this event is not mentioned in the Quran or Sunnah.). The scripts used in these inscriptions is mostly Hismaic and Safaitic writing systems native to Arabia, and quite distinct from the one later adopted for writing the Quran. 15. Point by Ismail about the order of the messengers from earliest to latest also is something to ponder over and maybe the people of the Hijr are different from the Thamud. due to the belief as mentioned in the Quran that warners were sent to all Nations. What do we know about the Nabateans? Their early inscriptions were in Aramaic, but gradually switched to Arabic, and since they had writing, it was they who made the first inscriptions in Arabic. 5. The tribes of Ad and Thamud were ancient people who existed on the Arabian Peninsula many centuries ago and were recipients of the Prophets Hud and Salih, respectively. Asking the deceased for supplications or intercession? Jumping the gun, 2. The Middle verse in chapter (11) of the New Testament says:" He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." The Middle verse in chapter (11) of the . These things had huge doors, elaborate engravings, complex designs, and must have been an amazing sight in their time. Are Hadiths Anti-Semitic? Claim that the Edomites are not Thamud thus the verses are irrelevant. [31][32] Other Arab tribes migrated into Sudan in the 12th century and intermarried with the indigenous populations, forming the Sudanese Arabs. This came to pass, and Thamud was annihilated. Allah sent the Prophet Hud to give the Aad the message of Islam. They were often stronger than you in signs or athar left behind has been oft repeated. [34][35] Tribalism is a significant characteristic of Arab population in Khuzestan.[36]. 2 See, I will make you small among the nations; Thamd, li, al-ijr, Gods She-camel, Arabia and the Arabs by Robert Hoyland, Professor of Late Antique and Early Islamic Middle Eastern History at New York Universitys Institute for the Study of the Ancient World, pg 68. Some of these questions were sincere, but most of the time they were just trying to trip him up. Also, the Prophet () did in fact mention the dwellings in a separate hadith. As I mentioned in our discussion on your post regarding Gog and Magog, I was very interested to read your reply to the missionary accusation regarding Thamud, because the argument seems to be rather recent and it seems to at least on its surface have good argumentation and hence we as Muslims must develop countermeasures. What? Qur'an and Hadith on Thamud and their Dwellings Abu Rahma / March 22, 2016 It is argued that the Qur'an and the Prophet () made an error in history and facts [1]. Corrections? The tribes of 'Ad and Thamud were ancient people who existed on the Arabian Peninsula many centuries ago and were recipients of the Prophets Hud and Salih, respectively. I hope the Christians, after having read this, will decide to do whats ethical and moral. In addition, when the verses talk about Verily there is a sign in this, it doesnt necessarily mean that we have to see the sign i.e. The Aad and the Thamud are two nations mentioned several times in the Quran. The Thamd were known from contemporary sources to have occupied parts of the Hejaz region, and later Islamic tradition holds that they settled on the slopes of Mount Athlab. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The Quranic tribes of Aad and Thamud a historical perspective. [Sahih Muslim, Book 55, Hadith 49]. Long before the Roman empire, before Alexanders conquests, even before the great Persian monarchs, there were the Assyrians lords of much of the Middle East, and archetypes of almost every empire that came after them. Here you can read various translations of verse 38. [16] Scarcity of water and of permanent pastoral land required them to move constantly. you who live in the clefts of the rocks, The Arabs on the Iranian side of the Gulf tend to speak a dialect much closer to Gulf Arabic opposed to the Khuzestani Arabic which is closer to Iraqi Arabic. It is possible that Edomites and or Thamud did carve out structures in the region, Nabateans, who came later, were inspired at some point during their history by the structures and proceeded to make a few of their own. Now we come to the archeological matters concerning the Nabateans. The Nabataean alphabet was adopted by Arabs to the south, and evolved into modern Arabic script around the 4th century. We have heard a message from the LORD: Id hate to be the one to rain on the holy Christian parade, but this inanity has to be responded to. The Thamud were scientists. Like does 89:9 mean what thamud used too do like example pharoh killed people on stakes or does it mean what they have done like example the pyramids. Are these tourist sites now identified at Madian Saleh the same as those we see discussed in the saheeh ahadith during the Tabuk expedition or is that a different location because these sites are identified as built by Nabataens and not Thamud and are considered much later than Thamud people (if we consider the finds to be absolutely authentic that these are Nabataens who built them. Have not read their own bibles. After the Arab conquest of Persia in the 7th century, many Arab tribes settled in different parts of Iran, notably Khurasan and Ahwaz, it is the Arab tribes of Khuzestan that have retained their identity in language and culture to the present day while other Arabs especially in Khurasan were slowly Persianised. [27:49]. Thus, we can say that perhaps this ones were the Nabataeans. Sahih International. So they used to carve and not they still carve. He sent Prophet Hud (AS) to the Aad, and Prophet Salih (AS) to the Thamud. According to the Islamic tradition, the Thamd were warned by the prophet li to worship Allh, but the Thamd stubbornly refused and as a result were annihilated either by a thunderbolt or by an earthquake. As for objection number one, as far as my research has shown, the only reason that the carved-out structures are considered tombs is due to various rectangular carved out niches inside them where the dead bodies were to be placed. 4) That the ORIGINAL dwellings in the valley were Thamuds but Nabateans built them further. Certainly many of these ancient civilizations were advanced for their times and certainly more advanced than the Arabs as they had very little structures and civilization development and they were tribal societies and not big cities. A temple they constructed at Rawwafa, 200 miles north of Medina, mentions the following in a Greek-Nabataean bilingual inscription: For the wellbeing of the rulers of the whole world . During this time, the Nabateans built structures out of rock throughout their Kingdom, The buildings are not homes but are actually tombs, The inscriptions in al-Hijr are not those made by Thamud , At 26 instances in the Quran Thamud are mentioned by name and in none of those contexts they have been called People of al-Hijr, Where the carvings done by Thamud are mentioned the place of it is also mentioned, Quran 89:9 where the places is mentioned as al-Wad which means Wad lQura, The carvings made by the people of al-Hijr are mentioned in 15:82 and the people of al-Hijr is a title of the Nabateans. Modern Arabic script around the 4th century you clear evidence from your Lord Hadith 49 ] it not. So they used to carve and not they still carve us to at! Reject Salih like the Aad, and among them were those upon whom error was [ deservedly decreed! To images which do not show up in here after I copied and pasted them from my ms word after! 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